The 12th batch
Document # 180-10087-10190 Is a three page interview summary of Robert Motto dated 12/30/77. Really only two.
On 12/30 77, the writers interviewed Motto at Holiday Inn, room 1526. Mr. Motto is now chief investigator for the Cook County Public Administrator’s Office. In 1963 he was Special Agent Robert Motto of the Chicago office of the United States Secret Service. We discussed with him his activities in connection with the proposed visit of President John F. Kennedy to Chicago on November 2, 1963.
Motto told us that he was involved in checks and counterfeiting enforcement during this 1963 period. As if anticipating the thrust of our questioning, he stated that about a year or two ago a newspaperman came to see him and questioned him about this November 1963 period. He could not recall the reporter’s name, but the man told him he was going to make him the hero of the piece. This put Motto on his guard and he said he didn’t tell the man anything about his activities at the time. “As a result, he murdered me in the article,” Motto said.
Motto told us that he could not recall exactly what specific activities he was engaged in from October 30th through November 2nd, 1963 except that he went to the Air Force – Army game at Soldiers Field on November 2nd. “The trip was canceled. I think they told us at the game, but we decided to watch it anyway,” Motto said. “When I got back to the office, someone said there had been threats,” he told us. We pressed him for information as to the identity of his informant, but he could not recall who in his office told him. He does not recall surveilling any Latin/Cuban types during that period, but he does not rule out this possibility; he simply does not recollect. The names Rodriguez and Gonzalez mean nothing to him.
Motto asked us if we had talked to Bolden yet. We replied in the negative and asked him who Bolden was. He launched into a vituperative discussion about Abe Bolden, the Negro Secret Service Agent who allegedly attempted to blow the whistle on the Service in 1964. He was arrested in Chicago and charged with attempting to sell file information to a counterfeiter who had been arrested by the Chicago office.
On the day President Kennedy was shot in Dallas, Motto was in Cincinnati, Ohio, working on a big case. He said he returned to Chicago and helped in the post-assassination investigation — but again he was vague on specifics.
Motto said that he had a copy of the magazine article he referred to earlier and would send it to us when he located it.
Document # 180-10090-10122 Is a 4 page section of Thomas Kelly’s Briefing Paper for the President’s Committee on the Warren Report. It is dated 10/10/64. So this was used for the Dillon Committee.
Prior to November 1963 and except on very rare occasions, most of which involved the use of military personnel on military bases or on occasions such as inaugurations, manpower assistance to the Secret Service for physical protection of the President was limited to the police agencies (local and state) in the area where the President visited.
The FBI and CIA furnished support in the area of preventive intelligence. Frequently, their representatives accompanied the Secret Service during the travel of the President, especially during foreign travel, but they furnished no personnel for the physical security measures.
Prior to November 1963, the general theory on which the Secret Service conducted Presidential protection was that satisfactory physical security could be provided by a small corps of well trained, dedicated men. The methods employed were secret, and the public and others assumed that many measures were taken which in fact were not – and this served as an important deterrent. Budget experience and political considerations seemed to rule out a more ambitious program.
Since November 1963, and the seemingly general recognition that the protection of the President and his family should utilize manpower in excess of that available to the Secret Service, the Secret Service has requested and received support from other Treasury enforcement agencies, the FBI and other Federal investigative agencies.
Treasury agents from the various law enforcement branches of the Internal Revenue Service (Inspection, A&TT and Intelligence), Bureau of Customs, the U. S. Coast Guard and the Bureau of Narcotics have been used to supplement Secret Service personnel on nearly every occasion of the President’s travel outside Washington. The Secret Service has requested and used 537 Treasury agents and their work involved 7,979 man hours between February 11, 1964 and August 31, 1964.
The procedure by which the Secret Service can call upon other Treasury agencies for manpower assistance was formally authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury on March 19, 1964. It is under the general supervision of the Treasury’s Director of Law Enforcement coordination, who also has supplied guidelines on protection to the other Treasury enforcement agencies. The Treasury has conducted an inventory of the numbers of its agents stationed in various parts of the United States and overseas. Under standing instructions the Secret Service draws on the other Treasury agencies in proportion to the number of agents each agency has available in the relevant geographic area. Adjustments are made when emergency situations require different allocations. Advance agents in the field can obtain assistance directly from Treasury agencies in the area and need not clear these requests through headquarters.
The Secret Service has used other Treasury agents mainly for advance building and route surveys and as members of special teams stationed in strategic positions along the route or in buildings along the President’s route of travel. They have not been used in investigations and only in rare instances for neutralization procedures.
Since November 25, 1963 and through September 30, 1964, the FBI has loaned to the Secret Service 363 agents from 20 field offices on 43 different occasions to assist the Service in Presidential protection. The present system for obtaining assistance from the FBI has been to request agents from the national headquarters. Thus far all agents requested for the protection of the President have been supplied although the FBI has requested that, in view of the many demands on FBI’s limited manpower, it would appreciate such requests being kept to a reasonable level and restricted to protection of the President himself.
FBI agents have been used as members of special teams at strategic points along parade routes during Presidential visits and occasionally in the motorcade. The FBI has stated that it would not permit its agents to be used in the neutralization of those identified as possibly dangerous to the President.
The Secret Service has also occasionally used the assistance of
U. S. marshals and other Federal law enforcement agents. The numbers are very small.
In its long range plan the Secret Service has requested sufficient additional personnel so that, except in time of heavy Presidential travel, it believes that it will not be necessary to call on other Federal agencies for assistance in providing for the physical protection of the President. The Secret Service is presently considering what requests it will have to make for assistance in times of heavy Presidential travel and for help in neutralization procedures if the number of persons classified as risks grows substantially. For the present the Service intends to have its agents supervise all cases of neutralization and henceforth not to assign the responsibility to other agencies whose experience in this extremely sensitive area may be limited.
Document # 180-10090-10128 Is a 7 page part of Tom Kelly’s Briefing Paper to the Presidents Committee on the Warren Report (The Dillon Committee).
There is a Charge-Out Record signed by Marwell of the ARRB on 10/2/95.
The purpose of a motorcade is generally to permit as many persons as possible to see their President. The route is determined by the local “host committee,” local law enforcement officials, and the Secret Service. A complete survey is then made of the route by police and the Secret Service.
The purpose of a route survey is to identify potential points of danger and establish counter measures. Agents or police are then assigned to locations such as rood tops, etc. The routes surveyed are usually those from airports to downtown and between hotels and places of public assembly where the President is expected to stop.
The first step in a survey is an observation process to identify vantage points for rifle or thrown objects. Roof tops, obstructions, large drainage ditches, overpasses, waterways, manholes, construction work, natural growth, bridges and other physical things along the route that might present a hazard are examined and catalogued. Special attention is paid to locations where explosives might be hidden and detonated as the President approaches.
During the survey of the motorcade route, the local enforcement officials and the Secret Service decide on the number of personnel needed to cover the areas and where they will be placed prior to and during the passing of the Presidential motorcade.
In addition, an alternate route is selected at various locations along the motorcade route which will permit the motorcade to leave the route in the event of danger. Along the route, intersections are selected where the motorcade or the main portion containing the President or the First Family can be diverted to alternate routes leading to an airport or other departure point. The alternate routes are inspected for the same hazards as above stated. Moving patrol cars operate on the alternate route within prescribed areas to keep the route open in the event it is necessary for the motorcade to be diverted.
With the exception of locations along the route where it has been predetermined that the motorcade will stop, Secret Service and Treasury enforcement personnel augment the police, and additional agents are deployed behind the people assembled there or interspersed in the crowd whenever this can be done.
Prior to November 1963, building surveys along the route of a motorcade were developed by the Secret Service only on those locations where the route and the timing of the motorcade would be known long in advance, e.g. inaugurals. Subsequent to the assassination, the Secret Service stepped up its building surveys, and orders were issued that each field office would conduct a building survey along those routes which in the future might be used by the President. All offices are in the process of conducting these surveys and 25 have completed the surveying of the cities in their areas. Those completed include New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Miami, Kansas City, Detroit, Los Angeles, Louisville, Dallas, Cleveland, Houston and San Francisco. Surveys of all major cities in the United States will be completed within a month.
A building survey encompasses a block-by-block physical inspection of buildings and an interview with the occupants of each of the buildings which are adjacent or overlook the route. Conducting such a survey represents a considerable task. There is a call for skill, ingenuity, and a capacity for evaluating and identifying danger points, and the devising of countermeasures to be effected for the time the President is in the area. Certain types of buildings are considered prime risks, such as empty warehouses, etc. Other buildings are considered to present a lesser risk; e.g., public or municipal buildings where guards are employed and access is limited.
Since November 1963, we have conducted the surveys in various ways. Each requires a concentration of manpower and the work is intensive although it lasts for a limited period. In New York City in March 1964, a survey was made of the routes generally used by the President. These included the routes from the airports to downtown and between the hotels where the President usually stops. The survey was accomplished by Secret Service and Treasury agents teamed with city detectives working in two-man teams. Forty-four teams were used. It took seven working days to complete the survey. In May 1964, a similar survey was made in Chicago, covering the route from O’Hare International Airport to the Conrad Hilton Hotel. Thirty-two two-man teams were used for five days. Not included in these days mentioned is the clerical time for the preparation of reports and data forms.
In Atlantic City, a survey was made of the routes from the airport to the convention hall and in Newark, New Jersey, the route from the airport to the Lincoln Tunnel. In the latter two surveys, the work was done by uniformed officers of the city police or in rural areas by the New Jersey State Police having jurisdiction. The officers assigned worked individually.
At each address, the occupant, owner, or building manager is contacted. Any available security intelligence and identifying data concerning the person contacted is recorded for future reference. There is left with the person contacted the telephone number of this service and the police department so that information can be reported. The contact is requested to furnish any information which might come to his attention concerning (1) the occupants of the building which would indicate any abnormal behavior toward or interest in the President; (2) abnormal activity during the time the President is expected; (3) the presence of any suspicious persons in the area; and (4) any person displaying abnormal interest in securing space which overlooks the parade route. From the information obtained during the contact with the occupant of the building, two 5 x 8 cards are prepared. The cards reflect whether access to the roof of the building can be controlled. These cards are filed in the police department involved and in the office of the United States Secret Service. In the remarks column, there is attached any information that might be available on firearms stored in the building or owned by the occupants and any information concerning any mental aberrations of occupants of the building known to the person contacted.
Hazards found must be offset by establishing post duty for agent personnel and police officers when the President is present and the safeguards employed are dependent upon circumstances. The survey also facilitates the advance programing of security communications that will best serve our needs while the President is in the motorcade. The communication facility for a Presidential movement must be of a scope to insure radio and/or telephone contact between the President’s car (plane, helicopter, train), Secret Service cars, security aircraft, designated police cars, designated networks of security post and the Secret Service command post, police headquarters, and others.
The results accomplished by a survey cannot be calculated to continue indefinitely. The benefits derived are in direct relation to the length of time of the survey and the time of the President’s visit. If the elapsed time is extended, benefits will diminish due to physical changes from construction, from changes in occupancy, etc. Resurveys will be periodically conducted, however, a resurvey or bringing one up-to-date is easier and less time-consuming than the original.
In view of the present ability of the President to decide to visit a city and to get there swiftly, building surveys must be kept as current as possible.
The building survey is by no means a cure-all for this outer perimeter security. It is merely a plus factor in Presidential protection. A building survey, such as now being conducted, would not have brought to light Oswald in the Texas School Book Depository Building. He was there as an employee; he had a right to be on the sixth floor. None of his movements or characteristics were suspicious insofar as the management of the building were concerned. Unless we have prior information that an occupant of a building or an employee of a firm on the route is a known risk, he may not come to our attention through a building survey.
We have not found it practicable to attempt to secure the names of every employee working in every building along a motorcade route. This would involve thousands of names. In order to make any meaningful check of this number of persons, we would need the name, date and place of birth of each of the individuals we listed. In the usual time allotted to us, even with mechanical equipment, to check the name of an individual reported to us during a visit against this index of employees and occupants would be a task beyond our present capabilities, because involved in these names checks would be a determination of identity, the risk the person represents to the President, and the question how he is to be neutralized.
Questions occasionally arise concerning the civil rights of occupants of these buildings; that is, the right to personal privacy. Frequently, occupants of buildings which overlook the parade route consider it an evasion of their privacy to be questioned concerning their possession of legally obtained firearms, whether they intend to have guests in their office during the motorcade. Questions also arise concerning some occupants along the parade route who may be considered eccentric, but who have evinced no interest in the President. These areas and pockets of questionable security must be identified and evaluated and neutralized if considered necessary, but building surveys furnish no guarantee that the building is “sanitized”. Obviously, people cannot be arrested or moved out of a building to which they have the right to access even though they may be considered by some enforcement official to constitute a risk to the President.
Experience has shown that the day before the President arrives and while the President is in the city, the police department and the Secret Service are deluged with calls from people along an extended motorcade route. It has been necessary in each instance to set up extra police lines to handle these calls.
Building surveys represent a considerable investment in time and money, but the Secret Service considers them desirable if the President is to be protected properly while riding in a motorcade, even if an armored car is used, lessening the danger from rifle fire. Buildings furnish a vantage point for thrown explosives or material which could cause panics or rioting in the streets below.
Document # 180-10090-10134 Is a 6 page part of the briefing paper, this time on Participation in Advance Arrangements for the President.
Prior to the assassination of the President, personnel of the Protective Research Section did not physically participate in the advance arrangements of the President. This was left largely up to the field office involved and the advance survey team from the White House Detail.
Since the assassination, the procedures have been changed so that where possible a member of the Protective Research Section joins each advance survey team to establish liaison with local offices of federal and local intelligence gathering agencies and to provide for the immediate evaluation of information received from them.
A “Trip Index” is maintained at PRS on a geographical basis in which is carded the names and other identifying information of persons considered a risk to the safety of the President. This Trip Index file is maintained on a daily basis by several agents assigned in PRS through whom is funnelled information on persons of protective interest. It is constantly updated and the information evaluated on a daily basis. These agents prepare photographic albums of the high risks in particular areas and also on a national basis. These photographic albums are furnished to the White House Detail agents and to the local field offices and they are systemically reviewed and updated.
As soon as the Protective Research Section receives notice from the White House Detail of a pending trip of the President to a given area, the Trip Index is examined for that and surrounding areas and a complete list with identifying information is prepared. As an assist to the Trip Index file, the agents responsible for its maintenance examine the geographical section of the master index to insure that any information in that index has not been overlooked. In addition, the master files on all organizations, and their activities, and the composite files on racial situations, picketing, etc., are reviewed. The prepared list of persons considered of protective interest, together with resumes on any organizations evaluated of concern and the general racial situation, as well as other information on bomb disposal facilities, etc., is immediately forwarded to the Special Agent in Charge of the field office involved, with copy to White House Detail.
From the first notice of a pending trip until the actual visit, or function the President attends, the Protective Research Section furnishes additional intelligence received by them by the fastest means of communication to both the field office and the advance PRS agent assigned to the operation.
As soon as the PRS advance agent arrives at the scene of the pending visit he confers with the Special Agent in Charge of the district involved and reviews with him, or a designated field agent, the list furnished by PRS, as well as any additional files the field office considers worthy of review. An evaluation of the known situation at that time is made.
The advance PRS agent then establishes liaison with the law enforcement agencies in the area, including, but not limited to the FBI, military, local and state police, and through their intelligence sections arranges to coordinate all activities and to ensure [Note, “to ensure” is written in] the rapid dissemination of information.
After the liaison is established the advance PRS agent, with the assistance of the field office, arranges to neutralize and minimize the danger presented by each individual risk. This neutralization ranges from insuring that the risk will not be physically near the President at any time he is at a given location to the actual surveillance of certain risks. The neutralization is accomplished by both Secret Service personnel and other law enforcement and intelligence agencies. It also consists of immediate investigation of any current intelligence where warranted.
The PRS advance agent maintains daily contact by telephone with the supervisors of the Protective Research Section, keeping that Section abreast of his activities, and for the receiving of any additional intelligence of interest gathered at that source. Likewise, he confers daily with the advance White House Detail survey team and the local field office, keeping them apprized of information directly affecting the physical aspects of protection.
As the President’s visit approaches a command post is established near the location of the function through which all preventive intelligence is funnelled. A group of Secret Service agents and plain clothes local police are attached to the command post to be made available to the PRS advance agent to take immediate action on any intelligence received or on any incident arising prior to or during the actual visit of the President. Any information received at the command post requiring immediate notice to the agents who are in close proximity to the President is transmitted to them by the PRS advance agent through radio and other fast contact.
After the President has left the area, the PRS advance agent confers with the local field office, furnishing them with the necessary information to document the liaison and activities conducted in connection with the intelligence received. In addition, the PRS advance agent, upon his return to Washington, documents his own activities.
All of the information including notice of the trip is then permanently documented in the Protective Research Section in a Trip folder so that at any time an examination of the Trip folder will reveal not only the steps taken prior to the trip of the President but also liaison established, intelligence received, action taken on any intelligence, and any incidents occurring during the actual physical presence of the President in a given area.
Due to the limited personnel of the Protective Research Section, it has not been possible to assign an advance PRS agent on every trip of the President. In those instances where one is not assigned, the responsibility for the liaison and coordination of preventive intelligence is designated to the local Special Agent in Charge of the field office involved. Budgetary provision and justification for six additional special agents for advance PRS work has been made.
Document # 180-10093-10026 Is a 2 page interview summary of Roger C. Warner. It is dated 5/25/78.
Roger Warner’s present assignment is as supervisor of the Washington, D.C. Field Office. He entered the Secret Service in February 1963 and was assigned to the Washington Field Office. In December of 1964 he was assigned to the P.S.D. (Protective Support Division). The function of P.S.D. was to give training to young agents for Protective Support and also to provide Protective Support. From February 1972 to the present time he was assigned to the Washington, D.C. Field Office.
Roger Warner had spent about three years with the Bureau of Narcotics prior to joining the Secret Service. While with the Bureau of Narcotics he had attended the Treasury School. He attended Secret Service School after being assigned to the Washington, D. C. Field Office.
Most of his experience came from on-the-job training. He had been assigned to Henry Kissinger when Kissinger was with the National Security council.
President Kennedy’s visit to Dallas in November 1963 was Roger Warner’s first Presidential Protective-type assignment.
He had no prior Presidential protection training. On the evening of November 21, 1963, Warner was assigned to protect the Presidential Suite in the Hotel Texas, Ft. Worth. He stayed there until he was relieved at midnight. He spent the night in Ft. Worth and stood by when the President made a speech in front of the hotel on the morning of November 22nd. Warner and another agent drove from Ft. Worth to Love Field. They arrived before the President’s plane. Warner was assigned to secure the President’s plane. On arrival the President walked along the fence-line and Warner stated that he was having lunch at Love Field, when a voice came over the P. A. system ordering people to return to the planes and stand by. Warner got word from agent Bill Patterson that the President had been shot. He then got running accounts on the radio. He helped clear the area around the planes of civilians. Warner observed the hearse arrive and the casket being loaded on the aircraft. Agent Mike Howard came over and told Warner that a subject had been arrested driving at a very high rate of speed from Dallas towards Fort Worth. The Fort Worth police thought this may be a suspect in the President’s shooting. Mike Howard and Warner were to go to Fort Worth and talk to the subject. While they were in the process of speaking to the subject, a report came in that Oswald had been arrested.
Document # 10094-10459 appears to be missing
Document # 180-10096-10460 Is a two page document from Barry Portman to the HSCA dated 6/23/78. This is an outside contact report.
Portman represents Charles Tourine in a federal criminal case in San Francisco.
Barry Portman represents Charles Tourine in a Federal criminal case in San Francisco, the present status of which is the Government’s appeal of a district dismissal of the indictment.
Portman, a very good friend of mine, talked to Tourine whose bottom line position is as follows:
1. Since the Committee cannot guarantee that there will not be “leaks” of his information or the fact that he even provided information, he has nothing to say.
This view is strengthened by the fact that “one of his neighbors was found floating in the Bay of Piscayne”.
Since he has always been a “stand up” guy with his associates it is better for him to “be out front resisting cooperation with the government”.
2. If Tourine receives a Congressional subpoena, it will cause him problems but the Committee should be assured that it faces a “great Meyer Lansky” with all the attendant medical background. Should he actually have to appear, the worst penalty he faces is contempt of Congress which he could purge himself of as the Committee goes out of business.
3. Tourine refuses to talk informally or off-the record because the track record of Congressional Committees on secrecy matters is poor.
Document # 180-10104-10324 This is a 3 page interview summary with SS agent Conrad Cross.
Conrad Cross stated that he entered the Secret Service, June 1961 and resigned November 1966. He was assigned to the Chicago Field Office for the entire length of his career but he had worked numerous other areas on loan (temporary assignments). He had no recall of the proposed Nov. 2, 1963 visit by President Kennedy relative to assignments or incidents. He only knew that the President was supposed to come to Chicago, but cancelled the visit. Cross stated that the name Thomas Arthur Vallee was familiar and he remembers that it was Ed Tucker’s case. He doesn’t remember any details because he was not involved. He had no recall of any incidents involving a threat to President Kennedy by any Cubans around the same time as the Valle incident.
We began discussing Abraham Bolden and Conrad Cross stated that he knew Bolden well, although they did not socialize too often. He stated that when Bolden was arrested, he (Cross) couldn’t understand some of the allegations against Bolden regarding time and place, because he was with Bolden on some of those dates. Cross stated that he believes Bolden was set up, but he has no idea who would have done it. Cross stated that Bolden had a big mouth and did not think before he said things. He believes this was a contributing factor to Bolden’s troubles. Bolden had a personality clash with ASAIC Maurice Martineau and they were always at each other.
Cross stated that the Bolden incident was the main cause of his resignation. Cross became very disillusioned with the Secret Service because he felt Bolden had been “shafted”. He stated that he began to feel useless and lost faith in the Secret Service and felt it was time to get out. Cross stated his supervisors tried to dissuade him but he resigned. He stated that he holds no malice and had been proud to be an agent. He states that he felt his training had been very good. he attended Treasury School, Secret Service Training School and Questioned Document School.
Document # 180-10106-10100 Is a two page letter from Blakey to James Golden dated 10/19/77. Mr. Golden is with the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration of the Department of Justice.
Some time ago we discussed your making some discreet inquires among those Secret Service Agents who were motorcade participants, to determine their current attitudes toward the assassination and willingness and to assist in our inquiry.
Enclosed is a list of the 16 people who were involved in the motorcade. It contains their addresses and telephone numbers.
It would be helpful to the course of our investigation if you could do whatever you can and let me know – even the negative results – as soon as possible.
The 16 agents he names are:
1.) Bennet, Glen A.
2.) Greer, William R.
3.) Hickey, George W., Jr.
4.) Hill, Clinton J.
5.) Johns, Thomas L.
6.) Kellerman, Roy H.
7.) Kinney, Samuel A.
8.) Kivett, Jerry D.
9.) Landis, Paul E.
10.) Lawson, Winston G.
11.) McIntyre, William T.
12.) Ready, John D.
13.) Roberts, Emory P.
14.) Sorrells, Forrest V.
15.) Taylor, Warren W.
16.) Youngblood, Rufus W.
Document # 180-10108-10349 Is a 4 page letter from Burt W. Griffen to W. David Slawson. It is dated 4/16/64. This is really Warren Commission stuff. It concerns Sylvia Odio.
Interview with Dr. Burton C. Einspruch, Dallas, Texas,
(3:00 to 4:00 P.M. Monday, April 13, 1964)
Secret Service Agent William Patterson and I spoke with Dr. Einspruch at Parkland Hospital. Dr. Einspruch a psychiatrist, stated that he has treated Miss Odio since approximately April 1963 and that he saw her on the average of once a week from the beginning of that period until the President was assassinated.
He had first indicated to us that the rumors about Miss Odio’s love affairs were false. Later, however, he did state that the story we had heard about her affair with a Puerto Rican law professor, is true. He also stated that Miss Odio did date Leonard Marcus, although he does not think the affair was as great as Mrs. Connell indicated to us. (It should be pointed out that Mrs. Connell also believed that Sylvia Odio was exaggerating her affair with Mr. Marcus.) Dr. Einspruch further stated that he did not believe that the affair with Father MacChann was as serious as we were led to believe by Mrs. Connell. We did not press him on this matter, however.
Dr. Einspruch described Miss Odio as coming from a very high social position in Cuba. He stated that she had been educated for 5 years in Philadelphia, that she had written some stories which had been published in Latin American journals, and that she composes poetry. He described her as a beautiful, brilliant, well-spoken, charming woman. Dr. Einspruch confirmed the stories Mrs. Connell had given us concerning the anti-Castro activities of Miss Odio’s father. He stated that Miss Odio’s father had organized an anti-Castro group while he was in prison in Cuba. Dr. Einspruch further stated that Miss Odio has two brothers, two sisters, and four children with her in Dallas. She also has a brother, Cesare Odio in Miami. Miss Odio’s ex-husband, Guillermo Hemera, is believed to be living in Ponce, Puerto Rico.
In describing Miss Odio’s relationship with Dallas Cubans, Dr. Einspruch stated that she was never really part of the Cuban community but that her real place was at the very top of the social ladder among American Dallas socialites. He stated that her social position in Dallas results from having exploited her father’s business contacts in the United States. He confirmed Mrs. Connell’s statement that Miss Odio had worked for a while at Neiman-Marcus.
In describing Miss Odio’s personality, Dr. Einspruch stated she is given to exaggeration but that all the basic facts which she provides are true. He stated that her tendency to exaggerate is an emotional type, characteristic of many Latin-American people, being one of degree rather than basic fact. He stated that Miss Odio is friendly with two Cubans psychiatrists. He stated that, in general, Cuban activities in Dallas center around the church, but he did not describe the extent of Miss Odio’s participation.
Dr. Einspruch stated that he had great faith in Miss Odio’s story of having met Lee Harvey Oswald. He stated that, in the course of psychotherapy, Miss Odio told him that she had seen Oswald at more than one anti-Castro Cuban meeting. One of these meetings was apparently at her house, he believed, and Miss Odio’s sister also saw Oswald at the house. Dr. Einspruch says that Miss Odio reported to him that Oswald made Inflammatory comments about Cuba. The term “inflammatory” is Dr. Einspruch’s and he could not clearly indicate what it was that Oswald had said. In fact, I got the impression these comments were pro-Castro.
I asked Dr. Einspruch about the blackout Miss Odio had on November 22, 1963. He stated that on that occasion he did not treat Miss Odio. Miss Odio was handled then by a general practitioner, Dr. Louis Shlipac, of Irving, Texas. Dr. Shlipac was the physician for the company at which Miss Odio was then employed. Dr. Einspruch did not know whether or not Oswald’s capture was the precipitating factor in the blackout.
I asked Dr. Einspruch if he believed that Miss Odio would give information which would be harmful to her Cuban friends. He stated that he did not. Previously, he had stated to me that he thought that Miss Odio and all of the local Cubans were afraid that they would be blamed for the Kennedy assassination. It had been Dr. Einspruch’s belief prior to our interview that such a fear was what precipitated Miss Odio’s blackout on November 22. However, he stated to me that he never questioned her on the particulars of this blackout. He also stated that the period just before the assassination of the President was one of great anxiety for Miss Odio. I did not question him as to the basis of that anxiety since he initially stated to me that he did not wish to violate the doctor-patient relationship in our interview. Nevertheless, I should add that at the end of our interview Dr. Einspruch offered to obtain any information that we desired from Mis Odio if she proved reluctant with us.
In pursuing the question of Miss Odio’s possible reluctance to give information that would hurt her Cuban friends, I asked Dr. Einspruch why it was that Miss Odio might have told Mrs.Connell about her knowledge of Lee Oswald. He stated that Mrs. Connell, at the time of the President’s assassination, was Miss Odio’s closest friend in Dallas. He stated, however, that their relationship had begun to cool at that time. He stated that Sylvia Odio had slept at the Connell house on more than one occasion.
I drew the inference that it may have been possible that Miss Odio wished to confide in Mrs. Connell as a means of cementing their deteriorating relationship. Dr. Einspruch observed that he thought the anxiety which Miss Odio felt after the assassination may have caused her to tell Mrs. Connell about Oswald and that that episode was one of lack of self-control. It should be emphasized that at all times Dr. Einspruch felt that the story about Lee Oswald was completely true.
In describing Miss Odio’s relationship with Mrs. Connell and other persons in Dallas, Dr. Einspruch observed that there may have been a certain amount of jealousy between Miss Odio and Mrs. Connell. He stated that it was his understanding that Mrs. Connell had had a few affairs of her own, although these were not subjects of notoriety in the community and were only known to some of his colleagues in the psychiatric profession. He felt that Mrs. Connell may have cooled on Miss Odio because Miss Odio was more of a social success than Mrs. Connell. Dr. Einspruch stated that Miss Odio had unquestionably passed Mrs. Connell on the Dallas social ladder. He reiterated that Miss Odio’s closest friends in Dallas now were the John Rogers family. It was my understanding that this family owns Texas Instruments, although Agent Patterson told me it was his understanding that the family owned Texas Industries. Apparently, Miss Odio stayed with the Rogers family after her hospitalization in connection with the Kennedy assassination. The exact timing of her stay with the Rogers family, is, however, not entirely clear to me.
At the conclusion of our interview, Dr. Einspruch offered to be of any assistance that we might desire in connection with Miss Odio. I got the understanding he would use his position as a psychiatrist to encourage her to give us all the information that we needed. He told me that he had an appointment with her at 8 A. M. on Tuesday morning, April 14, that he would mention that he had spoken with us. Dr. Einspruch feels that he has Miss Odio’s complete confidence.
Document # 180-10108-10350 Is another memorandum of an interview by Burt Griffen. This is with Mrs. Connell. It is also dated 4/16/64.
Interview with Mrs. C. L. Connell, Dallas, Texas.
(12:15 to 1:25 P.M. Monday, April 13, 1964)
Mrs. Connell was interviewed by Secret Service Agent William Patterson and me at her home at 6949 Lake Shore Drive, Dallas, Texas. She had previously been interviewed by Agents of the FBI on November 29, 1963. (See Commission Doc. 205, p. 640) Mrs. Connell is an extremely attractive, well dressed, educated, well mannered woman in her late 40’s or early 50’s. Her husband is a CPA and their home is in upper middle or lower upper class area. We questioned her in detail about the background and reliability of Sylvia Odio.
Mrs. Connell stated that Sylvia Odio had come to Dallas from Puerto Rico in April or March of 1963. It is Mrs. Connell’s understanding that Sylvia Odio’s father was an anti-Batista businessman who had temporarily exiled himself from Cuba. His primary business interests seems to be in the transportation industry, although Mrs. Connell could not elaborate. Mr. Odio was an early supporter of Fidel Castro and, Mrs. Connell states, Mr. Odio entertained Castro on more than one occasion in his home in Cuba. Apparently, when Mr. Odio realized that Castro was a Communist, he deserted Castro and began to organize opposition to him in Cuba. As a result, Mr. Odio and his wife were imprisoned. All of his children, however, were able to escape to Puerto Rico or to the United States.
Mrs. Connell, who is an Episcopalian, came to know Sylvia Odio through the Catholic Cuban Relief Committee of Dallas. Mrs. Connell apparently became interested in the work of this Committee after she returned from a trip to Spain in early 1963 or late 1962. She met Sylvia through the Committee. Because Mrs. Connell has a great interest in mental health and Slyvia was having psychiatric difficulties, Mrs. Connell formed a particularly close attachment to Miss Odio. Apparently Mrs. Connell was at least partially instrumental in Miss Odio’s consulting a psychiatrist and obtaining psychiatric help at Southwest Memorial Hospital in Dallas.
Mr. Connell stated that Sylvia was suffering from a mental disease known as grand hysteria. [That “Mr.” Connell might be a typo] Mrs. Connell stated that grand hysteria is common among European women but is rather rare among Americans. It is for that reason that the Southern Methodist staff at Parkland Hospital (Southwest Memorial) took a particular interest in Miss Odio. Grand hysteria according to Mrs. Connell is a condition characterized by black-outs in the nature of fainting spells or other forms of unconsciousness which might last for a period of hours. Mrs. Connell stated, that in Sylvia’s case, apparently the principal cause of this difficulty stemmed from her relationships with men. Mrs. Connell described Miss Odio as an attractive, highly intelligent and gifted woman who had had a series of affairs. Miss Odio is 26 years old and divorced.
Mrs. Connell stated that Miss Odio had an affair with a man in Puerto Rico who was a law professor. As a result of this affair, the law professor apparently lost his job and is now working in Washington, D. C. Miss Odio also became involved with a Catholic priest in Dallas who had been working with Cuban refugees. The name of the priest was Father McChann. Partly because of his relationship with Miss Odio and partly from his own choice, MacChann is no longer a member of the clergy. Mrs. Connell also stated that Miss Odio was amorously involved with Leonard Marcus, a member of the Neiman-Marcus clan. Mrs. Connell stated that she believed that Sylvia was inclined to exaggerate many of her amorous relationships and that she had a great need for recognition.
In connection with Miss Odio’s political activities, Mrs. Connell stated that Miss Odio had been approached by persons in the Cuban community in the hope that she would become a leader of the anti-Castro forces. Mrs. Connell stated that all of the Cubans with whom she had any contact were extremely anti-Kennedy and that Miss Odio shared their sentiments. However, since Mrs. Connell was pro-Kennedy and a recognized liberal in the community, Mrs. Connell believed that Miss Odio soft-pedaled her anti-Kennedy feelings in her presence.
Mrs. Connell reaffirmed that Miss Odio had mentioned meeting Lee Oswald. She further stated that she understood Miss Odio had an hysterical blackout on November 22, immediately after learning of the arrest of Lee Oswald.
Mrs. Connell described John Martin aka Juan Martin as sharing Miss Odio’s anti-Kennedy feelings. Mrs.Connell stated she met Martin twice at Miss Odio’s apartment. She described Martin as being about 5ft. 7 in. tall weighing 130 lbs. and as being a close friend of Miss Odio. She stated that sometime in 1963 Martin drove to Florida where he picked up a car belonging to Sylvia Odio’s brother and drove it back to Dallas.
I questioned Mrs. Connell about Col. Castorr. She said that Col. Castorr’s wife is connected with H. L. Hunt. H. L. Hunt is the father of Lamar Hunt, the owner of the Kansas City football team. The daughter of H. L. Hunt is a Mrs. Hill who is active in right-wing political activities. Mrs. Connell described Mrs. Hill as being in her late 40’s or early 50’s. (It is entirely possible that Mrs. Hill is the mother of Thomas Hill, a former Dallas man in his mid-20’s who now lives in Belmont, Massachusetts, and works as an organizer there for the John Birch Society. Thomas Hill was a leader in the John Birch Society in Dallas before he went to Belmont. Thomas Hill’s name appeared in Jack Ruby’s notebook and may have been taken down when Ruby photographed the “Impeach Earl Warren” sign.)
Mrs. Connell provided the names of the following people who would be familiar with Sylvia Odio: Mrs. Eugene Link (Telephone No. AD 9-3000), Albert Tumaya, Miami, Florida ( a lawyer and a CPA), Marcella Insua, Mr. Insua (Director of Cuban Relief in Dallas), and Hector Isquerido (wife is an employee of Neiman-Marcus).
Mrs. Connell stated that Mrs. Link was a gossipy person and somewhat unreliable; however, she stated that Mrs. Link might have particular information which Mrs. Connell did not have. With respect to all of the Cubans listed, Mrs. Connell indicated that she did not have confidence in their willingness to be forthright and frank if it would hurt the anti-Castro cause. Any direct contact with individual members of the Dallas Cuban community in connection with the Presidential assassination will almost certainly alert the other members
Document # 180-10118-10129 Is a 186 page executive session transcript of Marita Lorenz’s testimony to the HSCA on 5/31/78. Only one page is here and this is page 180, previously withheld because it refers to Marita Lorenz having an abortion.
I went to the JFK Records Collection and pulled this document as it was open in full. It was a bit difficult but I got it.
Richardson Preyer presided as the committee chairman, also present from the committee were Mrss. Dodd and Fithian.
Lawrence W. Krieger was counsel for Marita Lorenz.
On p. 5, Mr. Krieger states that Mrs. Lorenz never executed nor was she asked to execute by the CIA any written agreement of any kind dealing with any information she might have acquired in the course of her employment. (Implying, but not stating, Lorenz worked for the CIA.)
Marita is asked if she ever had an occasion to meet Castro and immediately takes the 5th. Whereupon a grant of immunity from a Judge Bryant was entered into the record as JFK Exhibit No. 122 and handed to Mr. Krieger.
p. 12, Marita states she met Pedro Diaz Lanz when she was in Cuba, in formal meeting rooms with Fidel Castro.
p. 16, Marita states she has seen Frank (Fiorini) Sturgis with ID from the FBI, CIA, and Secret Service in Miami.
p. 19, Marita discusses a plan to kill Castro, apparently given to her by two FBI agents, Frank O’Brien and Frank Lundquist. Sturgis was in Miami and he was to do the briefing. Alex Rorke, who, according to Lorenz, also was an FBI agent, two Cuban brothers and Lorenz drove down to Miami with a shipment of weapons. One of the Cubans was dropped off in the Carolinas for training. The Cubans were the Navarro or Novo brothers. Lorenz was put in a safehouse and stayed there for three weeks. She was talked to by Frank (presumably Sturgis) Alex Rorke, and Pedro Diaz Lanz.
Those familiar with the Marita Lorenz story (See he book “Marita”) know she met Castro February 28, 1959 aboard her fathers yacht, The Berliner. Castro invited her back sometime later and made for her a complimentary uniform of the 26th of July movement. She stayed with Castro for a time traveling with him to the U. S. in 1959 to New York. She meets Frank Sturgis, then known to her as Frank Fiorini. Sturgis convinces her to steal documents from Castro and deliver them to him. She later returns to the U.S., to New York. She has an operation, an abortion, I believe. It is in New York that she is asked to participate in an assassination attempt on Castro.
She was given two capsules of botulinum toxin. Fearing Castro’s agents would discover the capsules she hid them in cold cream, which destroyed the capsules.
p. 23, Marita Lorenz says she met Lee Harvey Oswald in a safehouse in Miami. Pedro Diaz Lanz was also there at the time along with Sturgis, Alex Rorke, Orlando Bosch, and Gerry Patrick Hemming.
She states this was a safehouse run by Operation 40. She describes Operation 40 as a group of trained assassins. She states that Sturgis, Hemming and Lanz were the trainers, as was an unnamed American Colonel.
She states she met Oswald three or four times and this was all in 1961.
During the training of these men she is accidently shot. Bosch patches her up and she is driven back to Miami.
p. 31, She says she met Oswald again sometime after August and prior to November 1963. This is the famous car caravan story from Miami to Dallas. (See Mark Lane’s, “Plausible Denial” p. 294-7)
p. 36, mention is made by a committee man, Mr. Dodd, that Lorenz wrote out the details of her association with Fidel Castro from 1959-1963. He hands it to Lorenz so she can identify it.
Returning to the caravan story, Lorenz had previously been asked to spy upon General Marcos Perez Jimenez by Sturgis. She dos so. As with Castro there is a sexual relationship. A daughter is born. I believe Lorenz married Jimenez. General Jimenez was the former president of Venezuela. Sturgis wanted information on how much aide Jimenez was giving Castro. Robert Kennedy extradites Jimenez in 1963. Lorenz states a lawyer for Jimenez, David W. Walter was threatening her. Apparently, she feared for her life and that is the reason she is at this meeting at Orlando Bosch’s house.
Mr. Dodd is skeptical that they would let Lorenz sit in on this meeting when she has nothing to do with it and is not there for the reasons the others are. He strangely seems to authenticate them by calling them “highly professional operatives” in his question to Lorenz as to why they would let her hear the discussion of the meeting.
She replied she was a member of Operation 40 and had worked for Sturgis before so she was trusted by him.
She states E. Howard Hunt financed Operation 40 from funds he was getting presumably from Washington, D. C.
The caravan consisted of two cars and contained the following people, Lorenz, Oswald, the Novo brothers, Hemming, Pedro Diaz Lanz, Sturgis and Orlando Bosch. They drove straight through for two days rotating drivers. This was on November 16th. In Dallas they stayed at a motel on the outskirts of town.
Lorenz states Jack Ruby came to this motel.
There is an uneasy feeling having Lorenz there. The guys don’t want her there. She doesn’t understand what is going on. She is under the impression they are there to steal weapons from an armory. She claims she has helped them do this before, acting as the decoy. Anyway, she leaves flying back to Miami. She then flies onto New York on November 22. She hears about the assassination on board the plane.
Lorenz states she then discussed this with Sturgis in 1976-77. Just as she is asked whether or not Sturgis admitted if he was involved in the assassination Mr. Preyer interrupts to announce that some members of the committee would like to ask some questions.
On page 68, there is a lovely little exchange between Mr. Dodd and Lorenz’s counsel Mr. Krieger. Apparently, Kreiger was given Lorenz the answers to the questions.
Mr. Dodd. “Counsel, I am asking the witness the questions. I certainly respect your right to be there but it is difficult to be here and sit here and ask the question of the witness and get the answer from you.”
Mr. Krieger. “You are not getting any answer from me.”
Mr. Dodd. “Yes. You are telling her what to say.”
Mr. Krieger. “No, I am not. Not in the slightest.”
Mr. Dodd. “I can hear you; I am not deaf.”
Mr. Krieger. “I am not telling her what to say.”
Mr. Dodd. “We will have a break and you can talk it over with your client. I am trying to get answers from the witness.”
Mr. Krieger. “That is what I want you to get.”
Mr. Dodd. “All right. Do you want to take a minute and take a break and go over this with your client.”
Mr. Kreiger. “If you ask the right questions, there won’t be a problem.”
Mr. Dodd. “I will worry about the questions. I would like to get answers from the witness, not from you.”
Mr. Kreiger. “You won’t get any answers from me, I was not there.”
Mr. Dodd. “Then be quiet when I am asking the witness questions.”
p. 74, when asked directly if E. Howard Hunt appeared at any time at this hotel in Dallas Lorenz said no. Then on p. 75 she leaves the impression that he did.
p. 80, The Committee wants to understand why Lorenz had no ill will towards Bobby Kennedy. Lorenz explains that the Operation 40 people probably thought that Lorenz hated the Kennedys because of Jimenez’s deportation. Lorenz stated that she thinks Bobby Kennedy made a political deal with Romulo Betancourt, the successor to Marcos Perez Jimenez, to extradite him for the theft of millions that Jimenez stole from his country’s treasury and for four counts of murder. Lorenz thought R. F. K. used the General as an example to other dictators not to escape and settle in America. Lorenz had a paternity suit against Jimenez and Irving Jaffe of the U. S. State Dept. asked her to drop it as it was holding up the extradition. David W. Walters had control of a trust fund set up for the daughter. When Jimenez was deported she lost her house and the trust fund but she blamed that on Jaffe and especially Walters . Lorenz claims Walters hired a man to run Lorenz down in a car.
The HSCA people defend Walters calling him a respected lawyer, church goer, and now (in 1978) the U. S. Ambassador to the Vatican.
p. 98, Lorenz thinks Oswald spoke Czechoslovakian.
p. 111-112, Mr. McDonald seems appalled that Lorenz would describe Jack Ruby as “that Mafia punk”.
p. 116, Oddly, Mr. McDonald asks Lorenz if she recalled if Oswald had a limp. What’s that about?
p. 117, Lorenz states she worked for the FBI doing espionage work. Her case agent was Al Chesterone. She says during Watergate she saw a picture in the newspaper and said that’s not Frank Sturgis, it’s Frank Fiorini, and that’s Eduardo. She gave a picture or several taken by Alex Rorke of the training and men at No Name Key to Chesterone. These photos showed herself and Sturgis, Hemming, Lanz and Oswald.
On p. 134, Mr. Kreiger points out the notations made on Marita Lorenz’s written statement which the committee got somehow which was not written for them or to them. (JFK Exhibit No. 123) It was written for Steve Czukas, an intelligence officer with Customs in Miami, Florida.
On page 137 Mr. Kreiger tries to enter into the records a letter from the FBI to Marita Lorenz signed by John F. Malone apparently highly commending Mrs. Lorenz for her work for the FBI.
On p. 138 Mr. Kreiger is allowed to ask Lorenz questions
On p. 139 Lorenz claims Czukas knew of the caravan from Miami to Dallas and that he got this information from someone in the Secret Service.
On p. 140, Lorenz refers to Warren Commission exhibit No. 18 Lee Harvey Oswald’s notebook which has Fiorini’s name in it.
On p. 141 Lorenz claims Sturgis was involved in the assassination of Trujillo.
Mr. McDonald and then later Mr. Dodd do not like that Lorenz and her counsel are reading questions and answers from prepared written papers. Dodd calls it a “script.”
p. 163, in response to a question from Mr. Fithian Lorenz states she did not wait 15 years to tell her story but told it to two agents of the FBI from the Newark field office shortly after the assassination. They were only interested in the whereabouts of Pedro Diaz Lanz and Alex Rorke. Apparently, Rorke was killed two months before the car caravan to Dallas.
The rest of the document is taken up with the HSCA members all but directly accusing Lorenz of perjury. They point out that Oswald is in Russia when Lorenz places him in the Florida Everglades so Lorenz must be lying. Unless there are two Oswalds.
Document # 179-40001-10073 Is a a copy of Document # 180-10108-10349.
Document # 179-40001-10432 Is a 3 page document from Stuart Pollak to J. Lee Rankin dated 6/18/64. This is interesting, it is about deleting certain sections from the testimony of some people.
Passages which if published might involve invasions of the privacy of the witness or which may be thought to be unjustifiably offensive, insulting or defamatory of some person other than the witness, and which may be of insufficient relevance to justify their publication.
Vol. Page
I : 167 Marguerite Oswald: “Reverend French did not show
up” to perform funeral services for LHO.
I : 239 Marguerite: Father of Carol, or Karen, co-employee
of Marguerite at Royal Clothiers in Fort Worth, “was
one of the biggest gangsters in Fort Worth, Tex.”
He was killed by other gangsters.
[Note, there is notation that “Karen’s last name was Bennett- conceivably Karen Bennett-Little Lynn.]I : 346, 420 Mr. Robert Oswald: Didn’t like Mrs. Paine, and
suspected her of complicity in assassination.
III : 138 Mrs. Paine: Reasons for her separation from her husband.
III : 237 Mr. Truly: Jack Doughtery, employee of TSBD, is “a man who probably needed some treatment when he was a little child, probably of some hormone nature….He has no interest in women…”
III : 336 Mr. Scoggins: When 17 or 18, he was arrested for stowaway on a tug boat.
VI : 214 Mrs. Hill expressed reluctance to have her “twang” her being kidded about it publicized.
VI : 247 Mr. Holland asked that we not publish his statement that official cars park on railroad property because someone “might get in trouble.”
VI : 321 Inspector Sawyer: Charles Givens has previous record for narcotics violations.
VI: 435 Mrs. Roberts: To her sorrow, she was unable to bear children. She is now working for a man who has cancer.
[Note, I think a page is missing here. For below starts on p. -3-]-3-
IX : 8 Mr. Raigorodsky: He doesn’t like priest at St. Nicholas and suspects him of being “either socialist if not Communist, Communistically inclined.”
X : 73 Mr. Steele: He “was called by the priest and told that [his son Charles][“his son Charles” has
a line through it]
had tried to get in a little girl’s pants.
X : 80 Mr. Geraci : He informed FBI of his friend
[Carlos Bringuier] `s activities. [“Carlos Bringuier” also has a line through it.] Mr. Geraci requested generally that his remarks not be publicized.X : 250,260 Mr and Mrs. Tobias re Mr. Tobias’ injuries in auto accident; Mr. Tobias states he was and always has been “goofy-headed.”
X : 287 Mr. Barnhorst : Joseph Hummel, resident at YMCA who allegedly knew Oswald, of low intelligence and “no end of trouble to me.”
X : 368 Mr. Davis: Mr. Slack “is just a temperamental hothead.”
Marguerite Oswald also made the following remarks disparaging of others :
I : 130-31, 188 (Criticizing Senator Tower’s reported remarks; I:141(criticizing audacity of Nixon); I : 142,165 (persons Marguerite states have information regarding Oswald’s security connections); I : 178 (disparaging references to Bobby Baker, Charles Van Doren, Fred Korth)
IX : 66 Refusal of Dallas hospitals to treat Oswald baby when ill.
In addition, the record also contains numerous disparaging comments both about and by George DeMohrenschildt and his associates, and also some unflattering comment about other members of the Dallas Russian colony — for example, repeated references to Mr. Bouhe as a busybody, and the like. Although most of this is probably of too great relevance to permit exclusion, below there follows a list of the most egregarious [sic. He probably means egregious.] comments relating to DeMohrenschildt:
[Note, obviously pages are missing here as this list of egregious comments on DeMohrenschildt is not here.]Document # 179-40002-10050 Is a a copy of Document # 180-10108-10349.
Document # 179-40002-10171 Is a copy of Document # 180-10108-10349.
Document # 179-40002-10314 Is a copy of Document # 180-10108-10349.
